LANDBACK For The People — with NDN Collective and The Red Nation

TRANSCRIPT

The Solidarity Index – Season 2 Episode 3:
LANDBACK For The People — with NDN Collective and The Red Nation

[00:00:06] NICK TILSEN: Because ideas are power. 

JENNIFER MARLEY: Absolutely.

NICK TILSEN: And they don’t want us being powerful. 

JENNIFER MARLEY: And it is their worst fear that we link up with other Indigenous people who have these advanced, sophisticated politics and ways of upholding their traditions and culture and ways of life.

[00:00:36] MUSIC: UNTIL EVERYBODY IS FREE BY BELLA CUTS – FEATURING THE VOICE OF MAYA ANGELOU

The truth is, no one of us can be free until everybody is free. No one of us can be free – until everybody is free. 

[00:00:51] ZAHYR

Welcome back to The Solidarity Index. I’m your host, Zahyr Lauren, aka The Artist L. Haz.

In this episode, we’re doing something a little bit different… We’re calling it The Surge Series: a podcast-to-podcast act of solidarity. The definition of surge is simple: it’s a sudden, powerful forward or upward movement, especially by a crowd or by a natural force such as the waves or tide. And that is what we’re trying to create here by lifting up other radical podcasts we admire – a surge of solidarity, as we share communities and continue to build together. 

In our first Surge Series event, we have the great honor of sharing a conversation between the host of NDN Collective podcast LANDBACK for the People – Nick Tilsen, and his guests Demetrius Johnson, Kiley Guy and Jennifer Marley from the Red Nation podcast. This episode was taped one year ago, but remains more relevant than ever, as the US sponsored genocide in Gaza reaches horrific lows and we brace for open fascism from the incoming administration. Nick, Dimitrius, Kiley and Jennifer talk about how it’s impossible to understand America’s genocidal partnership with Israel without understanding Indigenous people and the Land Back movement here in the so-called US. They reflect on what they’ve learned through solidarity delegations to Indigenous lands and Palestine, Venezuela and around the world. And they explore how the power of their ancestors flows through their actions today.

[00:02:30] NICK TILSEN

[Introduces self in Lakota] This is Nick Tilsen, your host here at LANDBACK for the People here at our studio in Mni Luzahan. It is 2024, and this is the first episode of Season Two of Land Back for the People. And last year’s season, Season One. We covered a wide variety of topics, ranging from what it means to be an abolitionist, to the legal struggles for Land Back, to the fight and freedom for Leonard Peltier, all the way to fighting for for land rights and Indigenous conservation in Alaska, all the way to, the the work around kelp farming in Alaska. Um, to the awesome creative resistance work that we’re doing, uh, in the movement. Wide variety of topics are covered last year, and this year, uh, as we kick off Land Back for the People: Season Two, we’re going to mix it up a little bit this year. We are actually going to be doing a couple different podcast swaps, where we’re swapping attendance on podcasts with other folks that have podcasts, and the very first one is going to be, uh, our podcast and our guests that will be coming on the show today, uh, with The Red Nation, and they have The Red Nation Podcast. Uh, but they are also a political movement that’s that’s fighting for Indigenous liberation, uh, and doing amazing work around standing in solidarity with the Palestinian people fighting for Indigenous land rights. Uh, and we’re going to hear about the history of The Red Nation. We’re going to hear about some of the work that they’re doing as community organizers in their community. We’re going to talk about why they started a podcast. 

Some of the things that they cover on their podcast and some of the things that that they’re about, their politics, why they exist in the world, what are they fighting for? All throughout the Indigenous world, there is Indigenous people fighting in different avenues in different ways for liberation, and they’re doing so against huge challenges. And this year we’re going to get into some of those challenges. We’re going to talk more about the cross intersectionality of the LANDBACK movement and Indigenous people. Um, that when there is advancements to both protect the land and fight for Indigenous people, it actually means a more just and equitable world for all people. And Mother Earth, we’re going to get into the meat of what that means in this season of Land Back for the People. You know, we are in an important time as a, as a people globally.

[00:05:37] NICK TILSEN

And we’re going to, we’re going to jump into those things this year. And so, uh, you know, this, this particular episode, we’re going to have our guests, uh, Kiley Guy, Demetrius Johnson and Jen Marley, who are all part of, uh, TRN – The Red Nation. Um, and, uh, we’re excited about what we’re going to hop into coming up here. So sit back in your seats, get ready for some badass young Indigenous people who are throwing down for their community, who are throwing down for their liberation, who are doing organizing, who are growing. And in fact, that’s one of the reasons why they’ve been up here. We’ve been building with one another, working with one another. So we’re not just on these podcasts talking shit. We’re actually building, you know, we’re building relationships with one another that can lead to liberation of our communities. So, Land Back for the People – Season Two. We are here with The Red Nation. In Oglala country we call it the Red Naysh. So I’m gonna give I’m gonna with our amazing guests, um, Demetrius, Kiley and Jen. I’m going to give them the opportunity to introduce themselves. Uh, I’ll send it over to send it over to D first.

[00:07:15] DEMETRIUS JOHNSON

[Greets the group in Diné]

[00:07:19] NICK TILSEN 

Okay.

[00:07:23] DEMETRIUS JOHNSON 

Badass of the Badlands [speaks Diné]. My name is Demetrius Johnson. Um, shoot, I might as well just say it in Diné too, uh, give my introduction. [Introduces self in Diné] Um, yeah. I come from a little community outside of Ganado called Tółaní. Um, but I’ve been a member of The Red Nation since 2015, coming up on almost nine years. So, uh, it’s good to be here in, uh, Lakota country. Yeah.

[00:08:05] KILEY GUY 

[Introduces self in Diné] My name is Kiley, I’m Diné, I am from the Navajo Nation, also a member of The Red Nation and Red Media. Um, I come from a community called Navajo, Northern New Mexico. Um, yeah. Really excited and nervous to be here. I’ll pass it to Jen now. Hi.

[00:08:28] JENNIFER MARLEY 

[Greets the group in Tewa] My name is Jennifer Marley. I’m from the Pueblo of San Ildefonso, a long time TRN member. Happy to be here. Uh, out here? Yep. In Lakota country.

[00:08:40] NICK TILSEN 

So all of you, who’s who said we didn’t bring the Nays and Pueblos onto the LANDBACK for the People podcast. You’re wrong. So checking you out in the comment section, we got the Dinés and Pueblos here today.

[00:08:54] JENNIFER MARLEY 

At the same time…

[00:08:56] NICK TILSEN 

Even at the same time. So, uh, but we’re going to start off, you know, for, for some of our listeners and, uh, you know, viewers out there for LANDBACK for the People. Um, you know I want to hear more a little bit more about what is the what is The Red Nation? Uh, how did it start? Um, what is some of the the the origin story of it?

[00:09:19] JENNIFER MARLEY 

Wow. Okay, so this goes way back. First of all, The Red Nation is just a continuation of 500 years of resistance. We do not make a distinction between, uh, you know, us and the ongoing traditions of resistance that have existed since the inception of colonialism. Um, we’re simply a continuation of Red Power and all forms of Indigenous resistance. But we started in 2014. [Laughs]

[00:09:46] NICK TILSEN

That’s where that continuation kind of happened. Kind of happened, right?

[00:09:51] JENNIFER MARLEY

Um, we were, um, uh, inspired. Well, first of all, um, Red nation formed as a response to rampant border town violence, um, in various border towns in the Southwest. Um, a border town, being a city or town that borders, um, Native nations, where Native people are, um, susceptible to rampant state and vigilante violence. And so, um, there was a big police, anti-police brutality movement. That happened after a unsheltered man named James Boyd was shot in Albuquerque. And then just a couple months after that, two Diné relatives, Cowboy and Rabbit, were murdered by teens just in cold blood. In a modern case of Indian Rolling, which is an old term that, um, you know, our, our predecessors like John Red House and early Red power movement leaders used to describe Bordertown violence.

[00:10:45] DEMETRIUS JOHNSON

I guess how me and Jen came into the picture was, we were going to school at the University of New Mexico. Uh, we were serving as members and also in leadership capacities at, with another Native organization at UNM called Kiva Club, um, and the formation of or the collaboration between Kiva Club and The Red Nation at that time came, uh, from trying to establish Indigenous Peoples Day, during 2015. Um, first at like the university level, but then at the city level and eventually the state level. But, um, yeah, like that’s how I became politicized was through Kiva Club and then meeting Nick Estes, um, our comrade and, uh, the person who actually brought me into organizing, Cheyenne Antonio, who was the president at that time of Kiva Club, uh, introduced Kiva Club and Red nation. And, uh, that’s kind of like how, yeah, that’s that’s how that’s how I got involved. That was that was that was my, um, kind of like intro into The Red Nation. Um, but, uh, just speaking about Kiva Club. So Kiva Club also has, like, a long, uh, legacy of resistance. It actually started in the 1950s, um, at the University of New Mexico. Um, and it started as a a social club for Native students being introduced into the college scene, atmosphere. Um, so it was like a little it was it was a it was a space for Native students to actually just be Native at a place where, you know, they’re just coming from the reservations. Um, but they’re in the 60s and 70s and 80s. Uh, Kiva Club was really instrumental and a key part of the Red power movement in the Southwest. Um, so it has a beautiful, beautiful history.

[00:12:43] JENNIFER MARLEY

Um, yeah. Without, uh, without Kiva Club, there’s no red nation.

[00:12:46] NICK TILSEN

Exactly.

[00:12:47] JENNIFER MARLEY

I just want to, like, hammer that in. But our earliest campaigns were in response to instances of border town violence, doing campaigns, doing on the ground actions. Um, and then a lot of people came to know us nationally and internationally for our Abolish the Racist Seal campaign which tied into a number of other national and international movements to abolish racist imagery like the Confederate flag and Harvard’s racist seal. And that just kind of spilled into even more campaigns challenging revisionist history in the Southwest. And we saw that really come to like an apex in 2020 with the removal of toppling of Confederate monuments all over the country or, you know, racist monuments all over the country. So I would consider Red nation’s early years to be, um, like a predecessor to that, that we saw culminate more recently.

[00:13:34] NICK TILSEN

Mhm. Absolutely. And I think the, I think the, you know, I love the framework of that, we’re always on a continuum, Right? We talk about that in the LANDBACK movement. You know Indian collective talks about that too. Like we’re we’re on a continuum of Indigenous resistance. The same blood of our ancestors runs through us. Who who made stands against the United States government, who made stands to stand up for our land and for our people. And I think that framework is always important because I always say movements, movements flow with the people, organizations and entities like they come and go. You know, they’re they’re they’re tools for change. But the people is where that genetic memory lives, you know, lives in our, lives in our in our blood, lives in our spirit. And so we’re continuing it on. And so in so many ways, you know, we are often answering the prayers of those who have come before us, and therefore, we’re also making intention and prayers, uh, for future resisters, you know, and so I always think about that from a spiritual context, because sometimes we get into the hyper politicized things that we’re doing and forget that, you know, we’re on a spiritual continuum, too, you know? And so I appreciated that, that that reference, um, um, and, Kiley, you, you, you something about The Red Nation inspired you to get involved? What was it? Why did you decide?

[00:15:11] KILEY GUY

Oh, gosh. Um, well, I was a student. Um, and I was sort of just bouncing around trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my time and, like, what skills I wanted to learn and just how to be, um, purposeful. And in school, I wasn’t really getting that, like. Um, it was to me, like in my schooling, it was more like being an entrepreneur or like being in business or, um, kind of more like, it was focused more on being an individual. And how do you be something different? Um, and so Red nation was always kind of on my radar. Um, in my early like, my time at university. Um, and so IPD was the moment where I attended. I drove at the time I was in Durango going to school in Durango. So I drove down to the IPD happening in Albuquerque, and that to me just showed, uh, just so there was so much power and, um, all The Red Nation members there were just very vocal and very just like in the front. Um, but they were also demonstrating to me like, oh, my gosh, you know, I could have that same sort of empowerment too. Or power. I just have to like, you know, have the confidence to bring it out, you know. And so I from then I was paying attention to Red nation and what they were doing and who the members, um, were at the time. And then I went to an early Native Liberation Conference in Albuquerque. It was in a like a little house, um, in a neighborhood. So I decided to check it out.

[00:17:20] KILEY GUY

And there it was, totally different politics from what I was learning in school, and it was more so geared towards people power and, um, thinking outside of, like, what we’re taught, like outside the US government, outside of being like a dependent of the government and really just sort of like seizing, you know, um, your, uh, the like, intellect Native people have, but also just this whole history of, um, movements and resistance. So. And I got to learn from Jen. Jen was like the person who, you know, sort of reeled me in and introduced me to Red nation members. You know, she invited me to the meetings and she sat down with me, uh, to sort of get like an idea of what I wanted to do in The Red Nation. And. Yeah, so to me, it just felt very, um, focused on, like, not being different, you know, um, but to to just be proud, you know, to be an Indigenous person, to be proud to be involved in a movement and to be proud to carry on like the history and like the legacy of resistance and, um, who the revolutionaries are, you know, and sort of just, like, embody those principles, that commitment, um, the spiritual aspects and. Yeah. So from then on, I was just like, this is for me. This is what I’ve been looking for. Like, this is what I’ve been praying for. And like, yeah. So then I just from that first meeting with Jen, that’s when I was just like, okay, I’m committed now. Like, I’m going to be in this this. 

[00:19:24] NICK TILSEN

You’re in, you’re in.

JENNIFER MARLEY

Yeah, exactly. [Laughs]

[00:19:26] NICK TILSEN

Well, and I think that I think that’s the thing that sometimes people like, people forget about, um, organizing. That part of organizing is creating like a culture of belonging, right? People want to be a part of something bigger than themselves. People want to commit themselves to something bigger than themselves. We live in this individualistic society, tries to, you know, have everything focused on the individual. But movements are so much about the collective and that sense of belonging. And, uh, and I think that I equate it similar to ceremony, because when you first interact with ceremony, uh, you know, whether it be at a young age or you’re coming to it later, you find something you’ve been looking for. You even find something sometimes you don’t even know. You were longing for it until you found it. And I think that I think that in the most powerful, whether it be actions or organizing spaces, you know, you end up being able to feel that connection, that connection to, uh, you know, the ancestors and the connection to, like, whatever we’re in the middle of right now is the most important thing that we should be doing. And and I think that’s, uh, that’s so fundamental when it comes to this work, because what we’re battling against is hard. And so we got to be able to be able to be a part of something bigger than ourselves. Um, I want to talk for a minute, just about like, um, The Red Nation’s Politics. Like, let’s kind of just lean into that for the next couple of minutes. Like, you know, let’s talk about what The Red Nation like, what the fuck is The Red Nation about? And what you all stand for in the world.

[00:21:10] JENNIFER MARLEY

Sure. So first and foremost, first and foremost, we’re a Native liberation organization. Um, we are queer Indigenous feminists, which means the kind of feminism that we practice and promote, um, is based in Indigenous worldviews. Um, we follow Indigenous feminist intellectual traditions and grassroots traditions which have long existed. We, um, are internationalists. So this is why, like the very first thing I learned about upon joining Red nation was about Palestine from the very beginning. We it’s mandatory reading to know about Palestine in Red Nation, because that is how you understand settler colonialism, because that is the premier example of an active settler colonial project. It’s an active genocide right now, right? Their story is our story. And it’s not just them. It’s Indigenous people all over the world. We’ve done multiple delegations all over the world. Kiley and Dia have been to Palestine. I’ve had the opportunity to go to Venezuela. I visited Kānaka Maoli homelands in Hawaii. We’ve. Yeah. So we make it a priority to build connections and solidarity with other Indigenous people and struggles all around the world, because that is where our collective power lies. And it’s our greatest dream for like all Native nations, right, who often call themselves tribes, to assert that everywhere, to assert that solidarity amongst themselves and globally, um, we are, um, socialists. And so when people hear that there’s all these preconceived notions that come with that. Right.

[00:22:46] NICK TILSEN

You’re commies.

[00:22:47] JENNIFER MARLEY

Yeah, I know it, just damn dirty commies. Right. And so but, um, let’s be real. Um, if you look at the US’s own policies and histories. We were most certainly the first damn dirty commies. Just like we were the first insurgents. Us foreign policy. Homeland security was built around eradicating Native people. And so and not to mention like we were the you know, people were like, oh, you just love Marx. I’m like, dude, Marx had to look at us to develop his theories. Marx looked at the Haudenosaunee Confederacy. Engels looked at Pueblo people. They looked at Kānaka Maoli people to, for real life examples of what a communal society could look like. So we literally predate even the theory with our praxis of how we lived. So when people call it a white man’s ideology, I’m like, okay, well, where do those white men have to look? 

[00:23:39] NICK TILSEN

Yeah. Where did they. Get where did they get their ideas off of?

[00:23:41] KILEY GUY

Yeah.

[00:23:43] NICK TILSEN

And then and then where did we get our ideas off of? You know, natural systems, monitoring like what we’ve, you know, seen happening in nature and depicting those in political structures.

[00:23:54] JENNIFER MARLEY

Exactly. Like literally our material conditions, like we are connected to our material conditions, to all of our relatives, all of our non-human relatives. And that’s still at the forefront of our politics. Not to mention, um, you know, socialism belongs to the colonized people of the world, right? Like, um, first of all, the term “decolonization”, that comes from Africa, that comes from like Frantz Fanon, right? That comes from the Black radical tradition. Um, and so we need to be looking at all of these traditions of resistance to colonialism. And the most successful ones we have seen in praxis are socialist struggles for Indigenous liberation. Um, whether it’s in Bolivia, it’s in, you know, like there’s, there’s examples around the world and a great deal of effort goes into propagandizing us to believe that those projects were failures, even though the US goes and puts sanctions on countries that have successful socialist projects. A Place like Bolivia, where their government is Indigenous fronted, where medicine people have the same status as doctors, where they have an appointed position for, that must be occupied by an Indigenous woman at all times to confront patriarchy. Like, you know, like because they don’t want us getting ideas, right? And so we are here to.

[00:25:12] NICK TILSEN

Because ideas are power.

[00:25:13] JENNIFER MARLEY

Yeah, absolutely.

[00:25:14] NICK TILSEN

And they don’t want us being powerful.

[00:25:15] JENNIFER MARLEY

And it is their worst fear that we link up with other Indigenous people who have these advanced, sophisticated politics and ways of upholding their traditions and culture and ways of life.

[00:25:25] NICK TILSEN

Well, right on. I mean, I think that’s, I mean, those are some of the reasons why I fuck with The Red Nation. You know, I mean, it’s why we have them on, why we have you on the show here, why we’re on the streets together, why we throw down with each other. Um, so we will take a short break and we’ll be right back.

[00:26:11] NICK TILSEN

Well, thanks for laying that shit down, Jen. Uh, it’s awesome to hear about the politics of The Red Nation. Um, how all of you kind of came into being a part of, you know, The Red Nation movement. And now I want to talk into, you know, one of the most important issues globally and facing Indigenous people today is we’re going to talk about Palestine, and we’re going to talk about the Palestinian people, and we’re going to talk about that there’s a genocide happening, and it’s happening at the hands of a colonial settler Government. So yes, I said all those things in that order, because that’s how we’re going to talk about these, about this issue and this is how we’re going to unpack it. And so, um, you know, The Red Nation has been very active, um, uh, in Palestinian, uh, liberation and want to give you all a chance to kind of talk about, uh, why it’s so important. And what is The Red Nation doing to support, uh, solidarity for Palestinian liberation?

[00:27:21] DEMETRIUS JOHNSON

So I went to Palestine in 2018. Um, like Jen said, like it was mandatory that Red nation members read about Palestine, learn about Palestine. Um, but when it was time, when Red nation selected me to go on a Palestinian delegation with Palestinian youth movement, that intensity of, uh, like political education on Palestine, like within, I don’t know, like a month of just like, okay, so not only like, okay, so you have a basic understanding of like what’s happening in Palestine, but like, do you know what is actually happening in Palestine that goes into like security? And like just like you as like an Indigenous person there, going into that airport, like the like the, the, the customs, the IDF is going to question you, like, why are you coming into quote unquote, like Israel, Palestine? Like, why are you why are you here? Why are you visiting? You says you’re Native. Like, why? Like, are you here for church? And you have to you have to be you have to prepare yourself to like, answer those questions. Um, but in this political education, um, it was actually Nadia Tannous wrote a paper called scorched er-, what was it called? I think it was called Scorched Earth. Um, but it was talking about, like the the olive trees and the significance of olive trees to Palestinian people. But, Nadia, I don’t know, the way Nadia wrote this paper. It read so much to me as like the scorched earth policy that was enacted on Diné people by the US cavalry. Um, the scorched earth policy for people that don’t know is, um, when they were rounding up Diné people for the long walk and, um, they, in order to draw Navajo people out in order to decrease, decrease their power, they, uh, they burned, uh, medicines, they burned food, they burned corn, they burned everything.

[00:29:27] DEMETRIUS JOHNSON

That’s why it’s called scorched earth. And it made Diné people more submissive to being round up and taken to, uh, Fort Sumner, which we call Hwéeldi. But reading this paper, I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, uh. It’s so similar to us. Um, but nothing really prepared me for, like, what I saw in Palestine. Um, yes. Like when you land and you go through the airport, you are questioned by, you know, the customs. And they really like they really they really question you. Um, and it’s a bit nerve wracking. I don’t know if I would have made it if I wasn’t prepared to answer those questions. Um, but, you know, the first thing you see is, like the walls, the first thing you see is like, just how, I don’t know, just barricaded Palestinian people are from their homes, from their homelands, seeing like the different zones. There’s A, B and C zones and how hearing stories of Palestinian people like, you know, I haven’t seen my relatives in so many years because I literally can’t go from this place to the other place, which is originally where I’m from. Um. It was, I don’t know, it just reminded me so much of, like, the stories you hear back here with Native people.

[00:30:49] KILEY GUY

I, well, similar to Jen, um, my political education from Red Nation started with Palestine, and I was elected to go on a delegation with MECA – Middle East Children’s Alliance – in 2019. And prior to or, yeah, prior to the delegation. Um, I actually sat with Doctor Mel and Dee and we read, um, Steven Salaita’s book, and, um, Doctor Mel would explain to us the like political analysis and landscape of Palestine and also just being really, um, uh, intentional with going there, but like being a good guest on someone else’s homelands. Um, so when I got to Palestine, you know, on the plane, I was just so nervous. But it’s kind of silly, but, um, I was nervous about, uh, like, not knowing enough or not, um, knowing, like, all of the history, you know, am I going to slip up? Like, I put a lot of pressure on myself to know those things. Um, and then when I got there and we were, you know, going to villages, um, and talking with Palestinian people, aunties, kids, uncles, you know, I immediately just I knew I was like, I know what this is. You know, um, it wasn’t a debate or like, um, something that I had to question. Um, I just from hearing about the stories of Palestinian people’s water sources being intentionally damaged or contaminated like that to me, was also something that was just like clear to me, like, okay, this is like, these are tactics, these are strategies of genocide. And to make, um, the Indigenous peoples like dependent because, um, Israel also, you know, steals their water and sells it back to them. They also control like how much water, um, goes into the villages and to the people.

[00:32:18] KILEY GUY

So they have to, um, they have to just be aware of, like their water usage because they have to make it stretch, you know, until the next delivery. Um, and then, you know, their farmlands, like their farming, is also controlled. Some of them were like burnt. So then they would have to, you know, replant. Um, and then like, build up their farms again. And then that’s also like impacted by the water that’s stolen. Um, and then like livestock. And there’s the story of, um, when Palestinians had cows and then, um, Israel also recognized it as like an economic resource. And so they banned cows and Palestinians, like, hid, you know, their cows from Israel, you know. Um, so those stories, uh, they stuck out to me. I just knew, I knew. Um, and I didn’t have to, you know, just like, have these, um, like, conflicts within myself, you know? Is this or is this not, like, genocide? I just knew. Um, and then, uh. So when I got back, um, to the, like, so called US. Um, then I started making the parallels between my own people’s history and what we’ve been through. Um, Bosque Redondo, being imprisoned there and just coming to the realization that all of us, um, our ansc-. Like we’re here because our ancestors, you know, resisted, um, those, uh, like, we resisted the army. Pretty much the government. Um, my ancestor, uh, she escaped from the, uh, imprisonment at Bosque Redondo and made her way back to our homelands. So it was making those parallels. And then, um, in terms of,

[00:35:32] Because I know there’s already been comparisons to, like, Hwéeldi. Um, and it’s like we were on our long journey to freedom. So are we really going to leave like Palestinians to make their long journey to freedom alone? You know? So it’s just like we need to be there, um, with them and support them. And it’s also realizing too, like, not only do we have the responsibility to know our histories and our resistance and like, our stories, um, we have that same responsibility to other Indigenous peoples, um, who are resisting a genocide or oppression or, you know, imperialism. Um, we have, like, a duty to be with them or, you know what I mean? Like on their long journeys to freedom because we were there. And so at um, DC, you know, in our speech we said that I can’t remember the exact words, but it was something to the effect that, you know, we have hope for Palestine’s future because we’re still here. And so I think that it’s just it’s not a debate, you know, like it should. Like for me, it’s just like automatic that, you know, we need to speak up, um, support Palestinians and their calls, like their demands. Um, and then also just like, um, not like, speak for them, but to allow them to speak for themselves. Um, and then to just, like, like elevate that, you know, like, use our resources, um, to adhere to basic, um, you know, like BDS calls or, you know, writing a statement, being vocal and unafraid to, you know, wave the Palestinian flag, you know, um, things like that.

[00:37:40] NICK TILSEN

Absolutely. I mean, I think, I think the thing like, for me, I think about the because of the shared history. Um, there’s like a shared responsibility. You know, they, just like they burn down the olive trees and go after they’ve been they’ve been following the the colonizers have been following that strategy everywhere throughout the entire world when it comes to Indigenous people. Go after the food source, go after the economic system, go after the ability for people to feed themselves, even the control of water in Palestine. I mean, we know water is life, right? Mní wičhóni – water is life. Well, you can control the life of a people if you can control their access to water. And so when we make references to, that the Palestinian people are living in an apartheid state. What we’re talking about is every aspect of their life being controlled by a settler colonial government. And here in the United States, um, we’re not just, the United States is not just complicit with what’s happening to the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israeli government. It is directly responsible. It is directly responsible, you know, at the sum of, you know, $3.2 to $3.4 billion a year, coming from the United States government to the State of Israel, and 99.7% of that money going to the military aid directly. And so as we sit here, uh, as Indigenous people on this land, the only reason why the United States government has the resources in the first place to be sending over there to commit genocide against the Palestinian people is because they have set up  a system where they have extracted our land and resources from our land to have those resources in the first place.

[00:39:37] 

And that’s why us as Indigenous people, like it’s why our, it’s why our resistance is bound up with theirs, and why our liberation is bound up with theirs, is because both of us are being impacted by those same exact systems. You know, when you, um, and when you watch the, the gaslighting of, uh, of genocide happening, the gaslighting, uh, of our people. I mean, we were once told, well, that didn’t happen. You know, I’m from Porcupine, for example, Pȟahíŋ Siŋté or Porcupine, and I lived three and a half miles from Wounded Knee. And I remember when that sign said The Massacre at Wounded Knee. I said, oh, no. it said, The Battle at Wounded Knee. They called Wounded Knee a battle in the historical markers that were put there, and they gave the Congressional Medals of Honor. You know, to seventh cavalry soldiers who massacred Lakota women and mostly women and children at Wounded Knee. And it is always that act of the colonizer to control the narrative, to try to tell the history. And that’s why I think that in these moments, it’s important for us to speak up, because there is a narrative war happening that is directly responsible for the physical war that is happening. Um, and that’s the thing I appreciate about some of the work that The Red Nation does. It helps to unpack that. You know, you guys talk about it on your podcast and your politics. Because if we allow the narrative war to continue to rev up, it, it creates the runway for the actual war to continue. Right?

[00:41:22] JENNIFER MARLEY

I was, I was going to say last summer, me and Nick Estes were working at the National Archives, and we actually got to look at the actual documents in which the US cavalry, like first in their own documents, referred to Wounded Knee as a massacre, and they had to retroactively go back and change the language to call it a battle so that it was justified. So talk about revisionist history and the way we’re seeing it in real time too, like, Israel’s blatant lies like that are being so easily debunked, right? Um, also, when I was in Venezuela, one thing we kept hearing from the elders there who survived the 2002 coup, they said the biggest thing that allowed that coup to take place was media narrative manipulation, and they emphasized about media being the most powerful weapon or tool for liberation. So I’ll never forget that.

[00:42:18] NICK TILSEN

I talked about this before. And this is just something like, because I carry both identities of being Lakota and Jewish on my on my, on my father’s side of the family, you know, are Jewish social justice activists. And I’m not ashamed of that. I’m proud of that history because they stood in solidarity with Indigenous liberation for a long, long time. But they also had the politics of standing in solidarity with Palestinian people. And, uh, one of the one of the, one of the things that they often talked about and my grandfather talked about was, um, you know, I asked him at Passover one time, what does it mean to be Jewish? I know what it means to be Lakota. We got land, we got culture, we got ceremony, we got laughter. We got all of the different things that we have, you know, um, and, you know, he looks at me and says, well, some Jews are going to tell you, what I’m about to tell you is not true. But what I will tell you is that at different points throughout history, Jewish people have experienced persecution and have survived genocide, have survived oppression. And therefore, it is a responsibility of Jewish people to stand in solidarity with those who are experiencing oppression today. And the act of doing that, is being Jewish.

[00:43:49] 

And so that’s the political lexicon for me as both a Lakota and Indigenous person, as Lakota and Jewish person. I was raised up in that. And so when I see such a disconnect between the values, a disconnect of social justice values as it relates to the treatment of other Indigenous people, it hits home to me. And so to me, you know, this issue is, uh, near and dear to my heart. And so I want to, you know, give big shout outs to The Red Nation for the stances that you have all been taking. Uh, and the people who have had the courage to stand up in this historical moment, um, who stood up before October 7th, who had positions on this issue when it wasn’t popular. Because we do open ourselves up to attacks. Um, you know, when we when we speak truth to power against these systems that are designed to try to oppress our people. Um, and so, just in closing, you know, how do folks get, uh, tapped into The Red Nation. How can they learn more about, uh, learn more about what you all are doing? How can they how can they hear about the podcast? Um, yeah. Share a little bit about that.

[00:45:08] JENNIFER MARLEY

So I’m co-host of The Red Nation podcast. Um, you can follow our TikTok account where we share daily content from the podcast. It’s just The Red Nation Podcast. You can stream us on SoundCloud, Spotify. Follow our YouTube channel. Um, the YouTube channel is like the secret place for all the gold because, um, you know, that’s where that’s where the gold is at.

[00:45:28] NICK TILSEN

It is?

[00:45:29] JENNIFER MARLEY

No, it really is. There’s like, yeah, that’s where we have special content. So come through. Um. We’re on. Um, yeah. Like we’re The Red Nation movement on Instagram. Um. Oh, yeah. Patreon. Of course, if you want to donate to us, that is how we sustain the podcast is via the Patreon. Um, so become a patron. Um, help us out. That is one way, um, to help us do everything we do from mutual aid to, you know, buying supplies so we can document the things we go to, um, you know, and really everything. Um, also, um, yeah, if you want to get involved, like, hit us up. Um, if you’re in Albuquerque, um, hit us up. Um, we also have comrades in Minneapolis. So these are the main places we’re operating out of right now. If you are a Native person who wants to know more about Palestine, who wants to know more about how you can support and get involved? Um, look up Indigenous for Palestine. Org. Um, this is a collaboration between Red nation community members, um scholars organizations. Um, and really all Indigenous people who are looking to stand in solidarity with Palestine. Um, there you will be able to sign on to our letter of support. If you’re looking for one concrete thing that you can do today to support Palestine, do that. It also includes a ton of resources, a ton of educational resources about Palestine. There’s readings, videos, podcasts, um, even more links to give you more information about action you can take. So again, that’s Indigenous for palestine.org. Uh, please use this resource to continue to educate yourself and others. Share around. Talk to your friends and family about it. Um, and thank you so much for supporting.

[00:47:19] NICK TILSEN

I appreciate you all for coming on the show. Um, I want to, you know, give, give shout outs to you for for your hard work. You know, this work is not easy. We have to learn how to organize people. We have to organize money. We have to organize resources. You know, the work of Indigenous liberation. Uh, and it doesn’t it doesn’t come easy, you know, and it takes a toll on us. Um, but you all are, you all are doing the thing, you know, and you all are doing it with your politics on your sleeve. And I have deep appreciation for that. I’ve been around this movement for a long time, a little bit older than some of the folks around this table. Um, and but it’s it’s powerful to see, because I do think that a lot of times, a lot of times we jump into trying to take action and be involved in things without developing our political analysis of why we’re doing them, you know, and that that is one of the things I’ll say that I appreciate about The Red Nation that I’ve seen. You know, I can kind of tell when I met a Red nation member because they got some politics to them. They got some things that they believe in.

[00:48:33] NICK TILSEN

And everyone I’ve ever met is also trying to learn, you know, from the comrades to the left and comrades to the right. And so that’s something I have always noticed. Uh, and, and also like just this past year, being able at different times to throw down with one another, you know, to, to learn from one another. And, you know, I remember actions that we, that we rolled together, uh, you know, uh, and, and I think it’s important for folks out there to know that, you know, that, that, that there might be all these different Indigenous groups, collectives, place based things. Um, but we’re also part of a movement where many of us have different roles in those movements. Uh, and, uh, when we can throw down with each other, we do. And we build those relationships for the for the, for the long haul, too. So I appreciate, uh, all of you for being on LANDBACK for the People. Uh, you know, we’re going to swap podcasts in the future. Uh, and so, uh, I’ve never been on the The Red Nation podcast, so come through. I’ll come through. I don’t know when I’ll be in Albuquerque, but it’ll happen. So, uh, appreciate appreciate you all for being on the show.

[00:49:47] DEMETRIUS JOHNSON

Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. 

[00:49:51] NICK TILSEN

All right. Is that a wrap?

[ ___ ] EVERYONE SPEAKING SIMULTANEOUSLY

Thank you so much!

Thank you.

All right all right.

Nice.

[00:49:59] LANDBACK PODCAST MUSIC

[WAVE SURGING]

[00:50:13] ZAHYR

This was a masterclass on the importance of Indigenous lands and lifeways, what it means to walk your rhetoric and move in lock step with struggles around the world, and how to create a culture of belonging through organizing. I’m so honored to be on this journey together with all of you. Thanks for being in The Solidarity Index family.

[00:50:35] MUSIC: UNTIL EVERYBODY IS FREE BY BELLA CUTS – FEATURING THE VOICE OF MAYA ANGELOU

Free… free… free… free.

[00:50:43] ZAHYR

Land Back for the People is an NDN Collective original hosted by Nick Tilsen, produced by Willie White and Steph Vieira, audio editing by Willie White, and original music by Mato Wayuhi. The Solidarity Index is a production of State of Mind Media, created and produced by Jen Bell, Shalva Wise, Stina Hamlin and yours truly, Zahyr Lauren. Audio editing and production by Stina Hamlin. Audio mix by Raquel Saldivar and Matt Gandy. Logo and identity design by Marwan Kaabour. Art direction, website and additional design by Jen Bell. Our theme song, Until Everybody Is Free, by Bella Cuts is out everywhere you listen to music. All proceeds from streaming and downloads go to the Doctor Maya Angelou Foundation. I’m your host, Zahyr Lauren, aka The Artist L. Haz. We appreciate you all for listening… Peace.

[00:51:41] MUSIC: UNTIL EVERYBODY IS FREE BY BELLA CUTS – FEATURING THE VOICE OF MAYA ANGELOU 

The truth is, no one of us can be free until everyone is free. No one of us can be free until everybody is free.